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Published Oct 27, 21
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I desire to provide you all a break for a moment and turn to Mr. Swartz. Typically, we would have had two panels, yet we didn't recognize how the Senate would certainly be operating today, so in an initiative to make sure we got via all the treaties today, we did this as one panel.

Swartz, you explain in your statement as well as your statements that the treaty with Bermuda likewise pierces bank privacy and gives a device for us obtaining the information we need. There have been some common legal help treaties that have stipulations relevant straight to sharing bank documents or other economic info.

That was a provision that was prepared and also adopted in the context of the E.U.

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Under that provision, arrangement's possible for feasible requesting party to celebration information look for to whether an account exists in the requested countryAsked for or in the case of the E.U., one of the requested member asked forParticipant After that, the demand, if there is a recognition of an account, need to be followed up through a typical common lawful support treaty.

And with respect to Bermuda, our document of teamwork has been excellent. Our team believe that the document we have on the manufacturing of records, including bank records, is such that we are certain that the stipulations included in this shared legal help treaty, which do require participation on the manufacturing of documents, will certainly be enough to guarantee that we get the records we require for our economic examinations and also other examinations.

A few other MLATs also enable urgent, non-written form requests to be made. It's my understanding that in Bermuda, it must remain in written form. Any type of reason that arrangement was not consisted of in this arrangement? Mr. Swartz. Mr. Chairman, while it holds true that the Common Legal Help Treaty does need requests in written type, it was the judgment of the negotiators that it was sufficient that, in this situation, with regard to Bermuda, we would certainly be able to obtain expeditious reactions to our requests and likewise offer such actions to Bermuda's requests, particularly since we have a method already established that will continue, we think, under the treaty of being able to share those demands via email or with fax.

Senator Cardin. Was this, primarily, a choice made by UNITED STATE mediators, that it was not essential, recognizing just how we can swiftly get faxes and also e-mails sent out? Is that fair enough to say, or not? Mr. Johnson. Senator, if I can help on that one? Legislator Cardin. Certain. Mr. Johnson.

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Bermuda withstood that because they intended to ensure that the demands were clear as well as in an extra formal way. But in the settlements, it additionally came to be clear that they approved that such request could be made by fax or by e-mail. So the actual concern they were concerned about was not discovering a fast means to make a request, but truly just taking oral requests off the table.

We're certain that we have actually obtained the methods in area that we can make urgent requests of them in a method that will certainly be reliable. Mr. Swartz. Mr. Chairman, if I may add, actually, while it is a benefit to be able to make oral demands, in method, it's extremely rare that we do so.

Legislator Cardin. Mr. Johnson, do have any type of remarks on the bank documents problem? Mr. Johnson.

The distinction in between being able to do an oral request or having the ability to use among these various other really rapid methods, we believe, is not consequential. Legislator Cardin. There've been some concerns elevated concerning the adequacy of Bermuda legislation with respect to loss of earnings as well as agencies of criminal offenses.

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Mr. Chairman, we are. The Common Lawful Help Treaty in Article 17 does obligate Bermuda to offer assistance to the United States in proceedings associating to forfeiture of profits as well as agencies of criminal offense, to the level permitted by the regulation of Bermuda.

We have actually had two instances of effective demands for restraint and loss of possessions. Both instances were a success and also we were able to obtain the funds. As a general matter, support is available under the regulations of Bermuda, and also I do think that is essential to stress, when it come to cold, taking, and limiting possessions, consisting of for matters associating with terrorism and also terrorism financing.

However it must be kept in mind that forfeiture aid is not restricted to what is permitted under Bermuda's domestic law. With respect to a UNITED STATE order, Bermuda can not surrender a certain instrumentality of nondrug offenses, because that power does not exist domestically. Again, that's restricted to instrumentalities in nondrug crime situations.

Senator Cardin. Thank you. Let me just ask the basic inquiry, as well as any kind of among you can react to it. In the Bermuda agreement, there's a provision that is not unknown to us, where Bermuda can refute collaboration in funding cases. We recognize, I comprehend that, so I'm not being critical of that stipulation being included in there.

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Are we prevented as an outcome of that or is there a method which we are able to cooperate under this treaty, even in those situations? Mr. Swartz. Mr. Chairman, we think and we wish we still would certainly have the ability to comply. Bermuda showed, as well as has recommended the United States, that it schedules the right to refute assistance in resources situations where the sentence consists of a feasible capital punishment, counting on the-- as opposed to the important public plan provision of Write-up 3 of the convention.

In truth, we have that experience with other countries that have actually placed comparable interpretations on the shared legal help responsibilities, as well as we've been able to exercise setups in a variety of situations that permit us to get evidence or go over whether the evidence is significant sufficient to go onward with some type of further steps being taken.

Mr. Johnson. Mr. Johnson. Yes, Legislator, if I might simply contribute to that, one of the factors this treaty took as long it did to bargain and end is because it was necessary to us to see to it that there had not been a specific limitation on help in capital situations in the treaty itself.

Swartz pertaining to you. And also that way we assume that aids maintain the concept that is essential to us, that such participation ought to be readily available, irrespective of the type of instance. And also we assume this has also substantiated with a few other countries, where despite similar worries about collaboration in capital situations, they have, as an example, been able to supply assistance to the nonpenalty phase of a test or an additional party investigation.

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Legislator Cardin. Yet they do hold the right under this treaty to deny participation where the United States criminal justice system is looking for death sentence? Mr. Johnson. Senator, they hold the right under the treaty to not offer assistance in situations that contrast public law or their crucial passions, as well as they have actually informed us that they interpret that to allow them, in capital punishment situations, to work out that.

I simply desired to make it clear that they would not be an offense of the treaty. We recognize their analysis, that if there was a situation pending here that we required their aid, where, plainly, the prosecutors were seeking the death fine, Bermuda might make a decision not to work together under this treaty.

Swartz. If I can state, Mr. Chairman, significantly, the treaty would certainly need, because this would certainly be a denial under Short article 3 of the treaty, that first there had to be appointments with the United States, prior to that denial might go ahead. And also I believe that's a crucial element of the arrangement that Mr.

Rather than having a specific stipulation, this is just one of a set of problems under which assistance may be rejected after examination, and, to name a few points, that there must be consideration regarding whether aid can be offered, subject to such conditions as the asked for country considers essential. And our experience in that regard has been that we usually can find proper guarantees to allow proof to be generated, at the very least for preliminary analysis of the significance of proof in the event on the whole.

And I believe that would be handy for us to have that information in this board. Mr. Swartz. Thanks. foreign tax credit. We 'd be delighted to provide that. Legislator Cardin. Ms. Mc, Carthy, you have the most convenient job right here, given that this contract was formerly accepted by this committee. As I said in my opening, we authorized it too late in the 111th Congress for action.

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Have there been any kind of substantial changes in our financial investment connection with Rwanda considering that last November when you provided testament on this treaty? Ms. Mc, Carthy. Thank you, Mr. Chairman. What we have actually seen given that last November is a rise in United States financial investment in Rwanda, and I can provide you a couple of instances.

In February of this year, we have Hilton Hotels; it's is going to open up a significant hotel in Kigali. And, additionally, Marriott Hotels is entering to promote the nation's expanding friendliness industry. I would certainly claim that, given this pattern of boosted financial investment, that it is crucial that the protections be managed for them.

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investors. Senator Cardin. I thank you for that (foreign tax credit). You additionally stated the fact that the United States is exploring other reciprocal financial investment treaties in Africa. I believe you pointed out another nation. I think we have 5 existing reciprocal investment treaties in Africa. Can you just show us various other nations that the United States has shown passion in discussing treaties? Ms.

Legislator Cardin. Thank you. I've been told by the staff that I need to ask the inquiry of whether the management still supports the Us senate adoption of the Rwanda treaty, given that it was held over from the last Congress. For the record? Ms. Mc, Carthy. We definitely do. Legislator Cardin.



I believe that finishes the examining. I do appreciate your perseverance with the board and also thank you extremely much for your statement today.

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As set out below, we would such as to offer updated information on reported UNITED STATE investment activity in Rwanda. In 2009, the supply of U.S. foreign straight investment in Rwanda was $1 million (according to the Bureau of Economic Analysis).

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And I assume that would certainly be helpful for us to have that info in this board. Mr. Swartz. Thanks. We would certainly be pleased to provide that. Senator Cardin. Ms. Mc, Carthy, you have the most convenient task below, because this arrangement was previously authorized by this committee. As I said in my opening, we accepted it also late in the 111th Congress for activity.

Have there been any significant changes in our investment partnership with Rwanda since last November when you gave statement on this treaty? Ms. Mc, Carthy. Thanks, Mr. Chairman. What we have seen since last November is a boost in United States financial investment in Rwanda, and I can give you a couple of examples.

In February of this year, we have Hilton Hotels; it's is going to open up a major hotel in Kigali. And, also, Marriott Hotels is going in to promote the country's growing hospitality industry. I would claim that, provided this pattern of boosted investment, that it is important that the protections be managed for them.

financiers. Legislator Cardin (foreign tax credit). I thank you for that. You likewise pointed out the truth that the United States is exploring various other bilateral financial investment treaties in Africa. I think you mentioned one various other nation. I think we have five present reciprocal financial investment treaties in Africa. Can you simply show us various other countries that the United States has shown passion in negotiating treaties? Ms.

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Senator Cardin. Thank you. I've been informed by the staff that I must ask the inquiry of whether the administration still sustains the Senate adoption of the Rwanda treaty, given that it was held over from the last Congress. So, for the record? Ms. Mc, Carthy. We certainly do. Legislator Cardin.

I believe that finishes the questioning. We could have some extra questions for the document. As you know, the document continues to be open for 1 day, so you get a break. That's a pretty fast turnaround time for this committee. I do appreciate your persistence with the committee and also thank you very much for your testament today.

Answer. As established out listed below, we wish to give upgraded info on reported UNITED STATE investment activity in Rwanda. Other than these updates, the responses supplied by the Department's witness in the 111th Congress remain accurate. In 2009, the stock of UNITED STATE foreign straight investment in Rwanda was $1 million (according to the Bureau of Economic Analysis).

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